Weapons, Weapons, Everywhere
Peace won’t break out anytime soon.
The IDF issued Thursday what it said were damning photos showing Katyusha rockets discovered last week by UNIFIL troops in Lebanon that are of the same make as the rockets seized by the Navy when it boarded the Francop cargo ship Wednesday.
On Thursday, the IDF finished removing the weaponry from the containers and transferred it from Ashdod to a base in the center in the country where it will be inspected and reviewed by munitions experts.
The final weight of the cache was 320 tons and included 9,000 mortar shells, thousands of 107-mm. Katyusha rockets that have a range of 15 kilometers, some 600 Russian-made 122-mm. rockets with a 40-km. range and hundreds of thousands of Kalashnikov bullets.
IDF sources said they were surprised by the significant quantity of mortar shells. “This is the most we have seen in a single shipment,” one senior officer involved in reviewing the arms cache said Thursday.
Other officials said it was possible that Hizbullah was lacking mortar shells or was planning on using them more prominently in the event of a future conflict with the IDF.
Most of the weaponry, the senior officer said, appeared to have come from the Far East and Russia, while some of it was made in Iran. Most of it appeared to have been manufactured in the past few years, the officer said.
In one of the photos released by the IDF, several 107-mm. Katyusha rockets are seen on launchers in the yard of a home in southern Lebanon, the identical location from where a rocket was fired into the Galilee last week.
“This is the same type that was on the ship and is shipped from Iran to Hizbullah in Lebanon,” the IDF said.
I guess they really don’t want peace.
- Aggie
Rob said,
November 7, 2009 @ 11:09 am
So, Israel now owns thousands of these rockets? And the Palestinians want them? I think I see a two-birds-one-stone kind of thing here. They really should get them back, just at velocity.
Chris said,
November 7, 2009 @ 3:18 pm
It literally boggles my mind that both the writers and the bigots that this site panders to are apparently as devious and cold hearted as they make themselves out to be.
They think it perfectly acceptable to kill and imprison people who are the legitimate inhabitants of a country that was taken from them by force. Perpetrated first by the English and then completed by the American’s.
Without the military aid and backing of the US, Israel would have been forced to the Peace Table decades ago and the Middle East would be totally different than what it is now. The Palestinians would have a country, Israel would most likely have a smaller country than it does now but it would be within boundaries that everyone could live with.
Israeli’s would have had no choice but to live as good neighbors rather than the bullies that they are now.
I have no love for Muslim Arab’s in general, and have nothing against the Jewish religion, in fact I am very suspicious of Muslim fundamentalists but from what I see on here, the radical Jew’s that frequent this site are not much better and in their own way are almost as worrying.
I do however support the Palestinian cause because of the way they have been wronged by the Super Powers dating back to the 40’s. This is a people who have only known conflict and misery brought upon them for no other reason than to steal their land. They are the modern North American Indian’s. History does not look back at the Apache’s and their ilk as terrorists. They were seen as terrorists back when they were fighting for their land and the whites were mascaraing them, but now they are not. Why can’t people see the similarities??
What is also sad is that Israel is not a friend of America, it is a friend of the government of the USA and they both benefit from the relationship. And this is forced upon the voting public by the Israel special Interest groups that lobby for money and arms to continue their war. They are so powerful that politicians that go against them are quickly voted out of power.
The thousands of US servicemen that have died as a result of the Middle East Mess has a lot to do with the perception of American’s by Arab’s due to the US support for one little inconsequential country that has virtually nothing to offer other than as a testing ground for US made weapons.
Until the US public opens its eyes and insists that this ridiculous relationship end, American’s will continue to die at the hands of Arab’s hell bent on retaliation. The terrible tragedy that occurred at Fort Hood is a good example of the depths to which these nut cases will go due to their hatred.
Marcus said,
November 7, 2009 @ 3:51 pm
I don’t understand what more Israel could have done in the 60s and 70s to acheive peace. I truly, honestly don’t. A Palestinian state was formed. Transjordan. They wouldn’t let the Palestinians in. And the Jews fighting the Romans? I just don’t understand this mindset. It is a complete rejection of events in their entirety, especially since the US didn’t even begin backing Israel heavily until the Yom Kippur war in ‘73.
Breaking relations with Israel will not make the US a saint in the eyes of the Arab world. They will still hate us. Israel is just an excuse. If they lose Israel, they will replace it.
I don’t see why people with this mindset, in their accusations of Israel and the West, are more accurately describing the actions of the Arabs and USSR. The land that Israel inhabits is indisputably historically Jewish. It has had a continued Jewish presence since the diaspora in 70. And similarly, Jerusalem is indisputably historically the Jewish capitol. It just is. Just like Oklahoma is American Indian land, and if it was every given back to them, people would oppose whites that stayed and claimed it as theirs b/c of the intervening 200 years. They would condemn the whites and say the land had belonged to the American Indians long before the whites.
There is your similarity.
Bloodthirsty Liberal said,
November 7, 2009 @ 4:04 pm
Chris,
What’s a Palestinian? How do you define the term?
BTL
Bloodthirsty Liberal said,
November 7, 2009 @ 4:14 pm
For the hater, it is always, always, always the fault of the Jewish people. Consider the comment above, written by Chris. He actually blames Israel, meaning the 6 million Jews living in Israel, for the horror at Fort Hood. Isn’t that stunning? Never mind that half of the Jews in Israel are people who literally fled Arab countries for their very lives. Just this week, the last Jews were evacuated from Yemen, a nation where they had had a continual presence for over 2,500 years. Why? Because their neighbors were slaughtering them.
And he seems to think that words that he disagrees with are equivalent to murder. There is a huge difference between American Jews expressing their views, their rights to free speech, and someone strapping on a suicide vest, entering a pizza parlor, and killing a bunch of eight years olds at a birthday party. Big difference. But if your heart is filled with hatred, you just can’t see it.
- Aggie
Chris said,
November 7, 2009 @ 5:45 pm
“He actually blames Israel, meaning the 6 million Jews living in Israel, for the horror at Fort Hood.”
How do you read what I said into that bit of tripe above??
I blame America’s support of Israel and its government, not the 6 million people living there. Most of them are obviously similar to the populace of most countries, somewhat ignorant of what is happening along their borders and pretty much just concentrating on living their daily lives with as little government interference as possible. I certainly don’t think that they have anything to do with what is happening as much as I could blame the average American for the US involvement in the Middle East.
I know it must irk you, but some of that 6 million actually see things quite differently to you and think that the actions of their own state as being illegal. And a brave lot they are in my mind…
And I am not talking about Israeli Arabs either.
Bloodthirsty Liberal said,
November 7, 2009 @ 5:58 pm
What, am I invisible?
I ask again, Chris, what’s a Palestinian to you?
Marcus said,
November 7, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
I’m confused.
Chris said,
November 7, 2009 @ 7:25 pm
“I ask again, Chris, what’s a Palestinian to you?”
In this context I consider a Palestinian to be of Arab decent and living in the Palestinian Territories of the West Bank and Gaza. Yes I know there are Palestinians living in Jordan, Israel and Syria. But I am particularly concerned with those Arabs living under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza.
Does that answer your question???
Marcus said,
November 7, 2009 @ 7:51 pm
I don’t understand how one can object to statehood, and then claim to be occupied. I just cannot find the evidence to so decisively say that the situation is Israel’s - and only Israel’s - fault. Given what I know, it seems nonsensical to me.
Bloodthirsty Liberal said,
November 7, 2009 @ 7:59 pm
How come you’ve never mentioned the entire Jewish population of Egypt being expelled, their property confiscated (1956)? The entire Jewish population of Libya being expelled and/or murdered, all property confiscated (1967), the frequent pogroms in Morocco, Jews expelled, property confiscated? Ditto Algeria. How ’bout the treatment of Jews in Iraq? Did you know that Saddam once executed 19 young men, all under 30 years old, and the crowd that turned out to watch the executions rivaled the Obama inauguration crowds. And on and on. Conservatively, about 850,000 Jews fled Arab countries, countries where they had resided since before the beginning of Islam, but guys like you either don’t know or don’t care. All of Yemen is officially Judenrein, as of this week, a place that Jews had lived for over 2500 years. Doesn’t count, does it? Instead, we’re supposed to cram into ever tiny spaces in return for “peace”, but peace never comes. Most of us are fed up with that approach. We’ve just had it with the excuses and the refusal to know and understand our history. And I fully realize that there are no words in any language that could open your heart or your mind, Chris. I am writing this for others who might be reading this thread.
- Aggie
Chris said,
November 7, 2009 @ 11:35 pm
The reason I have never mentioned it is that I have been totally ignorant of their plight. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention and I have been reading up on the exodus and expulsion of Jews from the Arab nations and I am quite shocked about what I read.
I can in no way condone the actions of the Arab nations that purged their Jewish citizens and although it was obviously harsh and dehumanizing, at least they had somewhere to go to. Israel was only too happy to accommodate them as they were still in the process of “Nation building”. Israel is to be congratulated for coming to the aid of the Jews from those nations, quite unlike the Arab countries that have been happy to criticize Israel but have done little to help the Palestinian refugees.
But not in all cases were Jews apparently forced from their country as is proven by the following quotations:
“Iraqi-born Ran Cohen, a former member of the Knesset, said: “I have this to say: I am not a refugee. I came at the behest of Zionism, due to the pull that this land exerts, and due to the idea of redemption. Nobody is going to define me as a refugee”. Yemeni-born Yisrael Yeshayahu, former Knesset speaker, Labor Party, stated: “We are not refugees. [Some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations”. And Iraqi-born Shlomo Hillel, also a former speaker of the Knesset, Labor Party, claimed: “I do not regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came here because they wanted to, as Zionists.”
I think we can both agree that being a Jew and living in a Muslim Arab country as a small minority after 1948 would have been difficult and dangerous. But what is sad is that the same thing is occurring in the Settlements within the occupied territories where you have a small Jewish community surrounded by unfriendly Arabs but for the IDF protecting them would have been wiped out in short order. Why would anyone want to deliberately be a thorn in the side of your enemy like that??? Why are these Jews who insist on living there that unfeeling???
Another thing I learn’t was that in a number of Arab countries the exodus was started by the Vichy government which was obviously the fault of the Nazi’s and not the Arabs themselves. Unfortunately they picked up where the Nazi’s left off after the 1948 war.
Aggie you accuse me of not opening my heart and mind and yet you have never once in all of your comments that I have read ever shown the slightest interest in the plight of the Palestinians. All you do is preach ancient history as though the Holocaust is still on-going. You are stuck in a Holocaust mindset that blinds you to anything else. And that is a travesty due to your influence upon your readership.
RB said,
November 8, 2009 @ 4:25 am
Chris, the Holocaust is not ancient history. And the only time I have ever seen it mentioned on this blog is when some loony muslim uses it as a tool to attack the Jews, or when Obama falsely claims that it is the justification for Israel’s existence.
If you are interested in ancient Jewish history, you should read about Masada, or the Bar Kochba revolt, or any one of the archaeological excavations scattered throughout Israel.
Bloodthirsty Liberal said,
November 8, 2009 @ 7:07 am
Chris,
Do you understand that Jews were persecuted in just about every country in which they lived, with the exception of the United States? And that, as a people, we naturally have different perspectives, some more Zionist than others, some more religious than others, but we share that history of persecution? Why would we trust anything anyone says who doesn’t grasp the depth and scope of that history? Words are cheap. There is no comparison to anything going on in any part of Israel or the settlements to either suicide bombing or the behavior of governments like Saddam’s Iraq. Look up the history of the Jewish communities in just about any country and really understand the generations of destruction at the hands of the dominant group. Because there are about 13 million of us or so, you can get just about any quote you want to support your hostile position, but you are speaking from lack of knowledge, as you have acknowledged. Most people did not leave Iraq due to Zionism alone; they left because Saddam was hanging Jews in the public square and half a million of their “friends and neighbors” showed up to dance and celebrate, babies on their shoulders. There is a film that you can watch on the internet, The Forgotten Refugees, which is mostly historical footage of Jews leaving those countries. Check it out.
- Aggie
Bloodthirsty Liberal said,
November 8, 2009 @ 8:10 am
In this context I consider a Palestinian to be of Arab decent and living in the Palestinian Territories of the West Bank and Gaza. Yes I know there are Palestinians living in Jordan, Israel and Syria. But I am particularly concerned with those Arabs living under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza.
So Palestinians have to be of “Arab de[s]cent”, and have to live within certain geographic boundaries. Which means that Yasser Arafat (born in Cairo) and Abu Musab al Zarqawi (born in Amman) were not Palestinian—or not Palestinians of your particular concern—even though they fought and died on its behalf. And the Jews born in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza (what you call Palestinian Territories)—those who survived the various pogroms and massacres you’re just coming to know—are not Palestinian either.
Cool, we’ve just found something that unites them.
I find it troubling that in your definition a Palestinian can be a Palestinian (whether or not of your particular concern), regardless of where he or she may live or how tenuous his or her connection to that particular geography—but a Jew can never be. Which is the opposite of Israel, where an Arab is an Israeli, regardless of ethnic descent, religion, or even loyalty.
I find it disturbing that your definitions are so arbitrary. Jews have lived in the lands you describe as Palestinian for decades, centuries, millennia, yet they are not legitimate residents in your view. Indeed, they are criminal trespassers.
This may be a widely shared view on the left, but it has no historical basis. We just observed the 92nd anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, which stated “His Majesty’s government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object….”
Palestine, however it was defined geographically, was a Jewish homeland.
And not just on that date, but also in the British mandate that ruled the region for the next 30 years: “Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people….” Further, “The formal objective of the League of Nations Mandate system was to administer parts of the defunct Ottoman Empire, which had been in control of the Middle East since the 16th century, ‘until such time as they are able to stand alone.’”
The same language was written into the peace treaty between Turkey (the surviving rump of the Ottoman Empire) and the allied victors after WWI: “The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people….”
We’re all the way back to the 16th century without a single mention of a Palestine that remotely resembles the one you describe. All of which is to ask you to ask yourself again: what is a Palestinian? I reject your earlier answer as ethnically cleansed of Jews, and can’t find another one in the historical record.
In all citations above, the text went on to say that the rights of other peoples would not be prejudiced in (Jewish) Palestine, nor would the rights of Jews in other countries. I submit that Israel has lived up to the letter and spirit of that international law infinitely better than any other country (most recently Yemen, but across the decades).
I go to this trouble, Chris, because in another comment several weeks ago, in answer to another basic question from me, you said you do think Israel has a right to exist. On that we agree. The basis of that existence, then, should include the right to self-determination and self-defense. I think you and I will probably also agree that the history of the Jewish state of Israel since its founding has been one of outright rejection by its Arab neighbors (up to and including wars declared and undeclared).
There may be a time and place for a homeland for “people of Arab descent” in “the West Bank and Gaza”, but never at the expense of Israel’s security. If the “Palestinians” act more like underworld gangs (the Hamass clan, the Fatah faction, the Islamic Jihad posse, the PFLP mob, just to name a few) than a nation, I think there is more truth in that observation than in some fanciful notion of statehood. Certainly, there’s no historic endorsement of it.
BTL