Obama Wins, Market Plummets

Is this that “fiscal cliff” I’ve heard so much about?

A sell-off on Wall Street gained momentum Wednesday, with the Dow falling below 13,000 for the first time in two months, as investors focused on how President Obama plans to avoid the fiscal cliff after he won re-election Tuesday night.

The Dow Jones industrial average fell more than 300 points, or 2.3%.

“This is purely a reaction to the political landscape and an investor response to the policies on the table — all the new regulation that will add to the costs of doing business for certain industries and sectors” said Jack Ablin, chief investment office at Harris Private Bank. “Financials are getting hit the hardest, and energy isn’t far behind.”

On the bright side:

Oil prices tumbled 4% to $85.12 a barrel.

At least the gas that you can’t buy will be cheaper, New Yorkers!

Welcome to your new economy—same as the old.

But I don’t know what I think until I hear Rick Santelli say it.

I became conservative because I wanted a solvent country for my children (among many other reasons). But if young voters want this kind of government and this kind of economy (and one of my kids voted for the first time this election), then it’s theirs to choose. And if Hispanic voters are such a large voting block, and they went overwhelmingly for Obama, shouldn’t their collective voice be heard and heeded?

I’m not saying conservatives are wrong. We’re clearly not. But if the popular vote can bring about the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, why should we be surprised if it leads to Big Brotherhood in America?

9 Comments »

  1. Jungle Trader said,

    November 7, 2012 @ 3:55 pm

    What’s my reaction to President Barack Obama’s victory?

    On May 4, 2008, I said in a blog post: “The future belongs to neither the smart nor the strong. The future belongs to individuals who can adapt easily to change.”

    The GOP should abandon its provincial ideas. Changing political positions on a few issues is easier than changing voter minds.

    (For the record: Strong U.S. support of Israel is not a “provincial idea.”)

  2. Kimmi said,

    November 7, 2012 @ 5:32 pm

    Jungle,

    What are some “provincial ideas”?

  3. Bloodthirsty Liberal said,

    November 7, 2012 @ 7:03 pm

    I think that back in the 60s, people who were inclined to conservative beliefs went into various forms of private enterprise. Liberals took over the universities, and since elementary and high school teachers are trained in universities, they actually took over the entire educational system. When we were kids, political discussions in school were multi-sided; today, not so much. And since most people turn off their brains once they receive their BA, I doubt if things will change. We are Europe now. All those people, BTL, that we know in common, the ones who longed for European healthcare and vacation and retirement packages, are thrilled.

    As fairness of outcome replaces equality, we can expect VAT taxes, means tested Social Security and asset taxes. Imagine being retired, living on a fixed income, and being forced to pay taxes on the worth of your assets every year to the federal government. Imagine having the government loot what you had hoped to leave to your kids. I see that sort of thing increasing in the name of fairness.

    - Aggie

  4. Jungle Trader said,

    November 7, 2012 @ 7:27 pm

    To Kimmi

    Some of the ideas advocated by social conservatives that confict with (small l) libertarian views. Control freaks on the political right are just as annoying as control freaks on the political left.

    Life is full of little trade-offs. Republicans need to prioritize. For example, which issue is more important–prosperty or abortion? To me, economic prosperty is more important.

    The fact that the Republican Party will never accept a pro-choice presidential candidate reduces the pool of available talent to win elections and solve bigger problems.

    Reagan, Bush I and Bush II weren’t able to bring about change on the abortion issue. Why continue to focus on it as a political issue? You can bring people to your way of thinking in other ways.

    If Republicans stick to an all-or-nothing approach, they will end up with nothing.

  5. Kimmi said,

    November 7, 2012 @ 9:41 pm

    Aggie, What are VAT taxes?

    Jungle, Thanks for the clarification. If someone believes abortion is murder, it is likely to be more important to them than prosperity (a matter of life and death) but I see your overall point.

  6. Bloodthirsty Liberal said,

    November 7, 2012 @ 11:43 pm

    VAT stands for Value Added Tax. It is a percentage – say 10% – federal tax on every single good sold at every point of production. Imagine purchasing a table. Someone owned the wood and sold it – 10% tax. The purchaser turned it into a table and sold it to the distributor – 10% tax on the now higher value. Distributor sells to store – 10% tax on even higher value. And you purchase it – 10% tax on the purchase price. VAT taxes are used in Europe and Canada. They bring in reams of dough, and they drive up the price of doing business at every level. The dems have floated the idea before. Now we have huge financial problems and I bet it comes up again.

    Oh yeah – the VAT tax hurts the middle and lower classes the most, obviously, by driving up the prices on everything they purchase.

    PS I agree with Jungle Trader that conservatives need to prioritize and drop the abortion/gay marriage stuff. I also agree with people that think that abortion is murder. But it is an argument that cannot be won at this point. Furthermore, I think it’s too late. The most important thing to do is to make sure that your own financial house is in order, because the national debt is about to go even higher.

    - Aggie

  7. mrzee said,

    November 8, 2012 @ 12:34 am

    I don’t know how VAT’s work in Europe, but here in Canada, it is only paid by the final consumer. In Aggie’s example, the purchaser of the wood who turned it into a table would have GST (our tax is called the Goods and Services tax) exemption number. The furniture store they sold it to would also have an exemption number, assuming they were planning to resell it and so on down the line until the final consumer.

    Here it also applies to services such as auto repairs, fitness club memberships, restaurant bills and just about everything else.

  8. Kimmi said,

    November 8, 2012 @ 1:54 am

    The VAT tax does not sound like a good idea.

    I do not think pro-life conservatives will be dropping abortion anytime soon because they believe it is murder. I know several pro-life conservative republicans that would vote for a pro-life liberal democrat over a pro-choice conservative republican candidate. That being said, republicans need to stop making silly comments about legitimate rape and etc. I think gay marriage and other social issues would be easier dropped than abortion.

    mrzee, if the companies aren’t paying because they have exemption numbers, how does it differ from sales tax?

  9. mrzee said,

    November 8, 2012 @ 2:40 pm

    Kimmi, it isn’t really any different than a national sales tax except perhaps for how broadly it applies. The only thing I can think of that’s not subject to the tax is groceries.

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